Saturday, January 24, 2009
Writer's Notebook Ch.11,12&13 group b 4pm
View the first sample chapters (available on line) Using the Writer's Notebook in Grades 3-8: A Teacher's Guide at (http://www1.ncte.org/library/files/Store/Books/Sample/35006chap1-2_x.pdf) and begin your writers notebook then post entries on Class Blog. Engage in an online discussion group on our class blog. Please read designated chapters and 1)propose “meaty” fat questions to discuss, 2) make connections to your teaching and work with students, and 3) make connections to your work as a writer (ie Keep your own notebook and share your response to it), 4)Please respond to two of your classmates’s entries in your study group, 4) Consider how what you have learned from this book might support the work of your integrated language arts unit.
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Hi Allison and Heather,
ReplyDeleteI have just finished the last chapters and am very happy with this book. It did give me a lot of great ideas as both a writer and a teacher. I liked also how it gave me some specific examples of topics to use and literature to help support writing.
In Chapter 11, I was really interested in the boys and violence topic. This is one that I always have had a hard time with and never know exactly where to draw the line. In my old teaching position of teaching students with soical/emotional disorders they always seemed to want to write about violence. Tney were 9-12 year old boys, and loved violent video games, etc. However, I really struggled with this because they were violent kids as well, and came from violent families. I just didn't know where to draw the line of interest violence and aggressive violence. What is the policy on violence in your classrooms? Do you allow it, or discrimate certain types?
In Chapter 13, I loved the idea of leaving a "topic list" in the back of the notebook so that the kids always have something to refer too when they don't have anything to write about. Honestly, there are times that I think I need that too, and I like how it eliminates the pressure off the kids saying, "what do I do? and I can't think of anything?"
I also liked learning about how Elliott used an assessment for the writers notebook. All of the criteria seemed good, however I do feel that it is very subjective to what each teacher feels. I guess that is a good thing as well, but think it can be challenging at times too. What do you guys use to assess your writers notebook? Do your students know their guidelines ahead of time?
Finishing up, some things that I have found about myself now with using a writers notebook is some progress and some frustration. Seeing that this is the first time I'm using a writer's notebook, I have found some struggles. First of all, I still feel like I am writing to an auidence because we are turning in our notebooks. I don't feel like I have truly let go as much as I would've liked to and wrote like I would of having known that I will not share it. The other thing is that I'm not sure I am being as creative as I would like to be. I find my entries sometimes boring and repetitive. On the other hand, there are some things that I have made progress with and that is that I am more inspired to use and write in my notebook. Never before did I hear myself saying that, and now if I see something or hear something that I like, I will say, "I need to write that down", or "I need to remember this to put in an entry". That to me is great gains, and I'm appreciative that I'm beginning to feel this way. I think that will help me be more creative in my writing down the line, and I also think that it will help me teach writing. What are your thoughts about this book and your gains/frustrations as a writer from it?
Hi Tiffany and Heather -
ReplyDeleteI really like reading chapter 11 about getting boys to write, and I find myself questioning my own belief system. We have a "no violence" policy when it comes to writing in our school, and unfortunately that is one of the things that boys tend to want to write about. They are exposed to a lot of violence in the video games they play, and from what they see on television. I almost feel like we should let them write about whatever they are passionate about because just because they are describing violent scenes does not mean they are going to be violent people. One of the male teacher's in my other class did a research report on this exact topic and discovered that there is no correlation between boys writing about violent scenes, and actually being violent individuals. What do you guys think about this?
I loved that Elliott mentioned Diary of a Wimpy Kid because my students are obsessed with this book. My boys always gravitate towards humorous books like this one and the Bone series. It seems like I can't get enough of these books for my classroom library because they are always being read! I do agree that boys like to write about humorous things, especially my class clowns! They love to share what they have written to see the reaction of their peers. I do try to include "boy-friendly" genres in my writing curriculum, and I have had a lot of success with my male students.
Tiffany - I do not actually assess their writer's notebooks because I feel like they should be private, and I just check that they are actually using them. We use them as more of a springboard to give them writing ideas. I don't assign it for homework, but I encourage parents to have their students continue to write in it throughout the summer. I like how Elliott used the phrase "Don't Think! Just Write!" A lot of times my students get writer's block because they are thinking too much about what to write about instead of just actually writing.
In my own writer's notebook, I have been writing a lot about my niece Amy. She is only two years old and has been through so much in her life including 16 surgeries and over a year's worth of time in the hospital. She was born with VATER's syndrome which is a rare condition, and I have never really talked about it with any except family members. I am very close with her and I babysit her almost every week, and I see her 3 - 4 times a week. Writing about her in my journal has been very therapeutic for me. I have also been writing about my dreams for the future. I have a list of goals for myself such as places I want to visit before I die, and personal goals I want to accomplish. It is nice to write these things down so I don't forget them!
My students have been continuing to write in their writer's notebooks about their experience being a pioneer on the Oregon Trail. They are LOVING it, and their diary entries have been outstanding. I will continue to have them document their feelings about what happens to them on the trail.
Hi Tiffany and Allison!
ReplyDeleteI thought chapter 11 was very interesting. As you both have stated the issue of writing about violence can be a very touchy subject. I actually heard Ralph Fletcher speak about this at the New England Reading Association Conference in September, and what he said made a lot of sense. What the boys are writing about is what they are interested in, and curious about. He also talked about how many boys don't mean anything bad with what they are writing. I thought a lot about this because it is something that comes up in every classroom. When I looked at what they were writing about when it was "violent" I realized it wasn't terribly bad. I know I shared already about the Halloween stories my students wrote in which we all died. After hearing Fletcher speak I let them continue to write, they were writing and they were enjoying what they were writing. I understand and am well aware that there are lines and if I ever felt a student crossed that line then I would put a stop to it. I think the example that was in Chapter 11 is perfect, the boy drew a big turtle that was going to attack the city and his sister drew a horse. I think there is a difference between violence in regards to a big turtle and a very realistic scenario where it could actually happen in real life. Does this make sense and do you two feel the same way?
I do not assess the writers notebook right now, but I did find the section that suggested point values to be helpful and something I may try in the future. I liked the fact that you were not assessing the quality of writing but the effort that was put in, and if the student was really stretching themselves with the writing that they are doing.
For my own writing I think that stretching is a big thing. Both of you mentioned opening up more within your notebook and that is something that I've also found myself doing more of throughout the semester. There was the example in the book about having a notebook for public sharing and your own private notebook. I think it's easier to open up knowing our notebooks won't be collected and we can share what we want out of them.
The whole premise of my unit and the writing that my students will be doing because of it comes from using their notebooks. They will be given a separate Pioneer notebook to use for the unit, but they will be doing all the same kinds of writing that they would normally do in their notebooks during the unit. I like the idea of using the notebooks in art and music. I know our art teacher has the kids write and respond to artwork, it would be nice for them to be able to do that in their notebooks so they can refer back to it. Do either one of you use the notebook beyond writing, or do your kids have to write in other areas?
Hi Heather and Tiffany,
ReplyDeleteHeather - I think it is really interesting what Fletcher had to say about boys including violence in their stories. I also thought it was interesting that in the book the boy drew a turtle in a violent situation, and the girl drew a horse. I do think that it is okay for boys to draw things like this, because it has been proven that there is no link between this and boys becoming violent later on in their lives. I also agree with you about not collecting and assessing our own notebooks because then we would really be writing for an audience, and it would not be as meaningful or authentic. I read another book by Fletcher where he said that the writer's notebook is a place to write badly. The pressure is off to be grammatically correct, or to write things that have to completely make sense all the time. I like having a place to write my thoughts and feelings, without the fear of someone else reading what I wrote.
I really don't have my students use their notebooks for other subject areas, but I may experiment with this more next year. My kids always write in other areas such as when they are responding to a text, or taking notes in geography or recording observations in science. They do this by either writing on lined paper or hand outs that I make for them. I have never honestly thought about having them write in their writer's notebook across the curriculum. I don't know how successful this would be. I guess I am too worried that it would be hard for them to locate information that they might need because their notebooks are not very organized!
When I woke up this morning, I noticed how beautiful, and WARM, it was outside, so I sat outside on my deck and just recorded observations of what I heard and saw. Somehow I ended up filling two pages of information with just simple observations. I think that the more students do this, the better they will become at describing settings in their stories, and just being aware of the world around them. How else do you guys get studnets to elaborate on their ideas?
Hi Allison and Tiffany!
ReplyDeleteAllison one of the things you mentioned was that you think it will be hard for students to find information within their notebooks if they begin using it in other areas as well. I have heard of teachers who tab off their students writers notebooks. They take colored paper or post-it notes and make tabs so the students can easily find different parts of their notebooks. This is an idea that I have thought of using so that my students have more options when they are writing and the will have an easier time finding things within their notebooks. I was thinking of doing sections for mini-lessons, ideas, free writing, etc. I think post-its would work in older students or our own notebooks, but I can see my students pulling them out and losing their places in their notebooks easily.
I agree with what Fletcher says about the notebook, I think it's important to have a place to just get everything out, the editing, grammar and everything else comes later if you want to go further with your ideas.
I've also read a couple of Fletcher's books on Writers Workshop and Writers notebooks, I always enjoy reading them, because he is so honest with his writing. I enjoy reading professional books where the author is realistic and honest. Fletcher says, the first time I tried this I feel flat on my face. For me this gives me more confidence to try the ideas in my own classroom. Knowing that other people didn't perfect it the first time makes me more relaxed when I try it and it doesn't go perfectly.
As for elaboration...I'm looking for ideas on how to get my kids to elaborate more. They just don't get it. We've been working on it for several weeks and very few of our students are improving with it. Instead of going in depth with one detail our kids are stuck on the idea that elaboration just means adding a lot more details. How do you teach it?
Hi Allison and Heather,
ReplyDeleteI really love the idea of using the writers notebook for other special areas as well. I think that the colored coded tags/post its, would be a wonderful idea to help organize it. Once you have developed a system and the students understand it, then I think it really would work out well.
Allison, I'm glad that you have gotten to share about your feelings about your niece in your journal. That really can be such intense emotions and it's nice to have a place to write down what they honestly are. I'm sure that it is therapeutic for you, which is wonderful and probably exactly what you need.
That was really interesting to hear about how there was not a correlation between violence writings and violence in boys. I actually really like to hear things like that so that it can help me in determining my own thoughts for violent writing.